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Michael Shermer's avatar

Amazing number of thoughtful and interesting comments to this piece on guns, one of several I've written. I've made the point elsewhere so let me reiterate it here: the Second Amendment is very likely never going to be overturned, and the 2008 SCOTUS decision in Heller adds legal precedence to the right to own a handgun for self-defense. So it's unlikely anything I or anyone else is proposing is going to effect the overarching legal framework protecting guns. And, by all means, if you want to have a gun in your home for self-defense (or hunting, or recreation, or whatever) you have the right to do so.

I grew up with guns. My step-father was a hunter so we had shotguns. I started off with a BB gun, then a pellet gun, then a 20-gage shotgun, then a 12-gage shotgun. We hunted birds: dove, quail, and ducks, and brought home the birds and ate them. My father was an excellent cook. Eventually I outgrew hunting as a sport and got into baseball and other sports so stopped hunting. In my 30s at a home I purchased there was an incident in the neighborhood that led me to purchase a handgun for protection for my new family, a Ruger. At first I practiced with it as a gun range, but then got busy with other things and forgot about it in my closet and didn't touch it for years. I eventually got rid of it after moving to a safer neighborhood. I do not own a gun now. If I lived in a questionable neighborhood where there was a lot of crimes, perhaps I would get a gun. So none of what I am writing about guns is about this part of the issue.

What I want to do is figure out how to reduce the overall carnage from gun violence. Perhaps there's nothing that can be done, given that there are more guns than people in the U.S. and that there is next to no political interest on the part of Republicans to do anything. But by all means if anyone here has additional ideas about how to reduce the death rate from guns (higher than it is for automobiles) I'm all ears. But my general impression from reading and talking to gun advocates is that it wouldn't matter if it was 440,000 dead each year (an order of magnitude higher), or perhaps even 4.4 million a year killed by guns. I'd like to think my impression here is wrong, but I don't think so. For many people, guns are talismanic in what they represent.

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Emilio J. D'Alise's avatar

This is the second article I've read from Shermer that left me surprised and disappointed. He appears to have lost the ability to apply logic and self-checking when making an argument. I won't address the whole "against tyranny" argument because that's not why I own guns.

The self-defense reason, on the other hand, is basically hand-waved away, even though that is by far the most applicable and solid reason for owning a gun.

Here, I can make similar claims as cited in the article about any number of things . . . owning a car increases your chances of being involved in an automobile accident. Having alcohol in the house increases the chance and incidence of underage drinking, alcoholism, and alcohol-related violence. Owning a knife increases the chance you'll cut yourself. Having kids increases the chance that you'll kill them (more kids die murdered by their parents than are killed in school shootings each year). The point is, you need to look at what was studied and what it was balanced against, and Shermer conveniently ignores all that.

Side note: he's quick to point out an argument's logical failings for other topics.

To be clear, I'm in favor of fairly strict requirements for owning a gun (and even stricter for carrying guns). But, I'm also a highly motivated individual when it comes to my safety and the safety of my family.

To wit, I'd like a discussion of Barnes Law be included in these pieces. Specifically, I'd like to see statistics included in the discussion of self-defense; statistics for the incidence of non-gun violent crime, the chances of being a victim of violent crime, police response times, the duty of the police to protect, etc. etc.).

It's not been my experience that police departments are geared toward keeping violent crime from happening . . . because they can't.

It's anecdotal, but my interest in owning and carrying a gun was a result of a credible death threat and the inability of the police to address the matter. The detective I was dealing with said my recourse was to get a gun and learn how to use it, and rethink my habits, gearing them to personal safety . . . because until something happened, there was nothing they could do.

That's the reality in this country that — because of our laws — makes comparisons to other countries a useless exercise in what-if-ism.

. . . and it's why self-defense is a much more real and present reason for gun ownership.

Now, if we want to suggest ways to encourage responsible gun ownership (insurance, training, other requirements, etc. etc.), then, fine. I'm there with you. Talk to me about banning this or that weapon or tell me I don't really need a gun because I'm "less safe", and I will immediately lose respect for your opinion.

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