Darryl Cooper believes that to be able to discuss a historical figure accurately and fairly, you have to be able to put yourself in the mindset of both that person and his/her critics. If you are consumed by love or hate of that person, you aren't likely to produce an analysis that is objective. For example, hatred of Donald Trump has led Michael Shermer to repeat many falsehoods, such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax and the "pee tape" hoax. Cooper does his best to avoid such mistakes and to gain a more nuanced understanding of historical events.
Tucker Carlson's interview with Cooper lasted over two hours and covered a lot of history. Carlson said very little during the interview, preferring to hear Copper's perspective. Cooper argued that many of our opinions are misguided or lack nuance. For example, we think of Jim Jones as nothing more than an evil, murderous psychopath, but Cooper points out that, before he fell victim to mental illness, he was a compassionate and beneficent civil rights activist beloved by the downtrodden, particularly southern blacks.
In a similar vein, Cooper attempted to explain how Winston Churchill, who has been lionized throughout the world, may have been viewed suspiciously inside Nazi Germany and may not fully deserve the praise he has received during and after World War II. Shermer calls Cooper a holocaust denier. Cooper is no such thing -- in his latest podcast, he details the horrors experienced by a Jewish girl in Nazi Germany -- but he questions the motives of both Churchill and the Nazis, and thinks that Churchill should have done more to avoid a prolonged, far-reaching war.
While it's a useful exercise to try to see things from the Nazi perspective, I think it led Cooper to some false conclusions about the Nazis and the Allies. That doesn't justify the vicious character assassination launched against Cooper, however.
Shermer has assumed that Cooper and Carlson -- and all conservatives, for that matter -- are Nazis and fascists with "a longing for a return to more rigid top-down controls over the unwashed and ignorant masses, a reversion to a constitutional monarchy, perhaps, or a benevolent dictatorship." If Shermer had ever actually listened to either person, he would know that they are the exact opposite of that mischaracterization. Shermer merely regurgitates the propaganda he reads in the New York Times and hears on MSNBC.
Shermer's hatred of conservatives cloud's his judgement and causes him to dispense with journalistic standards -- exactly what Darryl Cooper tried to warn us about. And, of course, Shermer is always looking for ways to exploit current events to drive sales of his books. Well, I suppose I cannot criticize him for that.
Sheesh. Thank you. I started listening to that Tucker interview with that guy, and I started wondering if I had ayahuasca intead of coffee in my mug. I turned it off and rolled the windows down in the car to get some oxygen going. I do think the CIA whacked the Kennedys though, with Carlos Marcello, and Dick Cain was one of the trigger men, who took his secrets to the grave when he was shotgunned in Rosie's Sandwich Shop on Grand Avenue in Chicago. Maybe it was ayahuasca; I've got the sweats.
I happen to think the Nazis probably did try to kill all the Jews they could, and suceeded in killing many of them, though there is room for debate on exactly how many. But Nazism did not ''just happen'' in a vacuum. Nazi anti-semitism was the end product of centuries of preaching agaist Jews by the Roman Catholic Church and would not have happened otherwise. The Nazi attitude toward Jews was not too far from that of the rest of European working class people at that time and the Catholic Church deserves the credit for much of it. .
The Nazis were evil, but not uniquely so. There have been plenty of examples in history of groups doing equally bad things to other groups. Including Americans poisoning whole countries with poisons like Agent Orange and Depleted Uranium that will keep on killing and maiming newborn infants for many future generations. This constant Nazi-bashing 3 generations after the war is serving a present-day purpose of today's ruling classes and it is not surprising that there are some people who are rightly skeptical of anything the government says and push back against the orthodox narative even if they are mistaken about details.
In most European countries, especially Germany, there are strict laws censoring any disagreement with the prevailing anti-Nazi story. Criticism of the Jewish religion or of Israeli policies, for example, is illegal. These laws were written right after the war by the American occupation forces, who were rightly shocked and repelled by what had happened and were determined to prevent it from happening again. But today, most of a century after that generation, it is not a revival of Nazism that is threatening us, but the justification for censorship of unorthodox ideas that originated as a reaction against it.
The protestant church was also to blame, Luther was a rabid antisemite. Critizism of the Jewish religion or Israeli policies is not illegal in Germany, far from it.
It is never a good thing to ban disagreement. In this case, the Nazi attempt at riding Europe of Jews was over 3 generations ago and many more important things have happened both before and since. It no longer matters to this generation. It should be relegated to the history books, not made the basis of modern policy. It is only constantly being thrown at us to justify the settling of Jewish refugees in the Middle East where they had no more business being than any other Europeans would have had.
It would have been a better solution to antisemitism for them to have given up trying to preserve a meaningless Jewish identity and been helped and encouraged to assimilate into the mainstream population. That was the progressive position at that time and the Zionist movement was a reactionary one.
And, there! Saying that is a criminal offense in Germany today.
Well said. This is the interesting and important part. What caused so many to be on board with the extermination of millions? If anyone leaves that part out, they are spewing propaganda.
The Roman Catholic Church for centuries had preached against the only rival religion in Europe--the Jews-- and that set the stage for the anti-semitism of the Nazis, though the insane anti-Jewish rantings of Martin Luther also deserve some credit. Nazism otherwise would have existed as a reaction to the poverty of the depression and the lose of WW1, but would have lacked that ingredient.
20th century fascism began in Italy, Hitler's role model, where it had the support of the Church and created the modern status of the State of Vatican City, giving the RCC a huge boost in credibility, and then, in Spain, the Church along with both Italy and Germany, put Franco into power.
The main leadership of the Nazis were from Bavaria, the Catholic part of Germany, and remained Catholics in good standing throughout their lives. If the Pope had really disaproved of the persecution of the Jews he could have ended it at any time. He did not.
Tucker Carlson has long been a shill for Russian disinformation, this doesn't surprise me. If Tucker actually told the truth regarding anything would surprise me. Great post. Thanks.
After decades in service of the truth, yet more nonsense like this would have many of us bowed over, holding our heads in our hands. I don't know if it's your cycling, fitness, intellect, personality, or all-of-the-above that provide you your tireless determination in the face of neverending tides of bullshit, Michael, but we're grateful for it.
So we have a former president dining with a Nazi… Now we have the VP candidate touring with Tucker who gives a platform to Nazis. Hmmmm I see a pattern going on here with the GOP.. of course more discussion about the “Jewish problem”, because you know it’s a problem that Jews exist.
This part is a bit misleading. France was invaded after England & France declared war on Germany.
"invading the USSR after, you know, annexing Austria, the Sudentenland, Bohemia, Lithuania, and Czechoslovakia, and then invading Poland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Norway, Yugoslavia, and Greece."
" those at the top called the shots. Of course, those who desire the return to such a society always think of themselves as being in the chosen few in control..."
Those "shots" have been, are, and would be literal as well as figurative.
Tucker stands for many good positions for our society. He also has beliefs that I do not agree with. That is the way for many individuals. Many historical stories have been created over time with bias from the people in charge. Unfortunately these historical figures and the people who knew and maybe understood them through direct contact at a deeper level that is more defining are no longer around. So we are left with stories lacking depth required to understand what really happened and why. Let's be respectful to all speakers who have a point of view. We all should have the liberty to read, assess and think and decide for ourselves based on our personal knowledge and experience. Branding and name calling are not needed. Just listen and make your own decisions.
iPod course you can find a lawyer to defend any absurd position. A woman in California sued insurance company alleging she was turned into a nympho by head injury from auto accident she won. On the Jewish side they forget that many non Jews were also slaughtered especially in Eastern Europe. Hitler goal was to kill all Slavs and resettle Eastern Europe with Germans.
I had a neighbor who told me years ago that he had scene a real concentration camp and not believe they did not exist. He was a respected man in the community.
Darryl Cooper believes that to be able to discuss a historical figure accurately and fairly, you have to be able to put yourself in the mindset of both that person and his/her critics. If you are consumed by love or hate of that person, you aren't likely to produce an analysis that is objective. For example, hatred of Donald Trump has led Michael Shermer to repeat many falsehoods, such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax and the "pee tape" hoax. Cooper does his best to avoid such mistakes and to gain a more nuanced understanding of historical events.
Tucker Carlson's interview with Cooper lasted over two hours and covered a lot of history. Carlson said very little during the interview, preferring to hear Copper's perspective. Cooper argued that many of our opinions are misguided or lack nuance. For example, we think of Jim Jones as nothing more than an evil, murderous psychopath, but Cooper points out that, before he fell victim to mental illness, he was a compassionate and beneficent civil rights activist beloved by the downtrodden, particularly southern blacks.
In a similar vein, Cooper attempted to explain how Winston Churchill, who has been lionized throughout the world, may have been viewed suspiciously inside Nazi Germany and may not fully deserve the praise he has received during and after World War II. Shermer calls Cooper a holocaust denier. Cooper is no such thing -- in his latest podcast, he details the horrors experienced by a Jewish girl in Nazi Germany -- but he questions the motives of both Churchill and the Nazis, and thinks that Churchill should have done more to avoid a prolonged, far-reaching war.
While it's a useful exercise to try to see things from the Nazi perspective, I think it led Cooper to some false conclusions about the Nazis and the Allies. That doesn't justify the vicious character assassination launched against Cooper, however.
Shermer has assumed that Cooper and Carlson -- and all conservatives, for that matter -- are Nazis and fascists with "a longing for a return to more rigid top-down controls over the unwashed and ignorant masses, a reversion to a constitutional monarchy, perhaps, or a benevolent dictatorship." If Shermer had ever actually listened to either person, he would know that they are the exact opposite of that mischaracterization. Shermer merely regurgitates the propaganda he reads in the New York Times and hears on MSNBC.
Shermer's hatred of conservatives cloud's his judgement and causes him to dispense with journalistic standards -- exactly what Darryl Cooper tried to warn us about. And, of course, Shermer is always looking for ways to exploit current events to drive sales of his books. Well, I suppose I cannot criticize him for that.
I think you mischaracterise Shermer.
Write on!
Sheesh. Thank you. I started listening to that Tucker interview with that guy, and I started wondering if I had ayahuasca intead of coffee in my mug. I turned it off and rolled the windows down in the car to get some oxygen going. I do think the CIA whacked the Kennedys though, with Carlos Marcello, and Dick Cain was one of the trigger men, who took his secrets to the grave when he was shotgunned in Rosie's Sandwich Shop on Grand Avenue in Chicago. Maybe it was ayahuasca; I've got the sweats.
Thank you for not giving up.
Excellent! Thank you, Michael!
I happen to think the Nazis probably did try to kill all the Jews they could, and suceeded in killing many of them, though there is room for debate on exactly how many. But Nazism did not ''just happen'' in a vacuum. Nazi anti-semitism was the end product of centuries of preaching agaist Jews by the Roman Catholic Church and would not have happened otherwise. The Nazi attitude toward Jews was not too far from that of the rest of European working class people at that time and the Catholic Church deserves the credit for much of it. .
The Nazis were evil, but not uniquely so. There have been plenty of examples in history of groups doing equally bad things to other groups. Including Americans poisoning whole countries with poisons like Agent Orange and Depleted Uranium that will keep on killing and maiming newborn infants for many future generations. This constant Nazi-bashing 3 generations after the war is serving a present-day purpose of today's ruling classes and it is not surprising that there are some people who are rightly skeptical of anything the government says and push back against the orthodox narative even if they are mistaken about details.
In most European countries, especially Germany, there are strict laws censoring any disagreement with the prevailing anti-Nazi story. Criticism of the Jewish religion or of Israeli policies, for example, is illegal. These laws were written right after the war by the American occupation forces, who were rightly shocked and repelled by what had happened and were determined to prevent it from happening again. But today, most of a century after that generation, it is not a revival of Nazism that is threatening us, but the justification for censorship of unorthodox ideas that originated as a reaction against it.
The protestant church was also to blame, Luther was a rabid antisemite. Critizism of the Jewish religion or Israeli policies is not illegal in Germany, far from it.
Luther started out as a Catholic so his ideas came from there. But his anti-Jewish rantings would get him arrested in Germany today.
German law today bans holocaust denial or ''trivializing'' or ''relativizing'' the holocaust.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/germanys-laws-antisemitic-hate-speech-nazi-propaganda-holocaust-denial/
Yes, I know, and that is good.
It is never a good thing to ban disagreement. In this case, the Nazi attempt at riding Europe of Jews was over 3 generations ago and many more important things have happened both before and since. It no longer matters to this generation. It should be relegated to the history books, not made the basis of modern policy. It is only constantly being thrown at us to justify the settling of Jewish refugees in the Middle East where they had no more business being than any other Europeans would have had.
It would have been a better solution to antisemitism for them to have given up trying to preserve a meaningless Jewish identity and been helped and encouraged to assimilate into the mainstream population. That was the progressive position at that time and the Zionist movement was a reactionary one.
And, there! Saying that is a criminal offense in Germany today.
Well said. This is the interesting and important part. What caused so many to be on board with the extermination of millions? If anyone leaves that part out, they are spewing propaganda.
The Roman Catholic Church for centuries had preached against the only rival religion in Europe--the Jews-- and that set the stage for the anti-semitism of the Nazis, though the insane anti-Jewish rantings of Martin Luther also deserve some credit. Nazism otherwise would have existed as a reaction to the poverty of the depression and the lose of WW1, but would have lacked that ingredient.
20th century fascism began in Italy, Hitler's role model, where it had the support of the Church and created the modern status of the State of Vatican City, giving the RCC a huge boost in credibility, and then, in Spain, the Church along with both Italy and Germany, put Franco into power.
The main leadership of the Nazis were from Bavaria, the Catholic part of Germany, and remained Catholics in good standing throughout their lives. If the Pope had really disaproved of the persecution of the Jews he could have ended it at any time. He did not.
https://www.davidkertzer.com/books/pope-against-jews
Absolutely. Yes.
Tucker Carlson has long been a shill for Russian disinformation, this doesn't surprise me. If Tucker actually told the truth regarding anything would surprise me. Great post. Thanks.
Michael, it is obvious that your work never ends. :-(
After decades in service of the truth, yet more nonsense like this would have many of us bowed over, holding our heads in our hands. I don't know if it's your cycling, fitness, intellect, personality, or all-of-the-above that provide you your tireless determination in the face of neverending tides of bullshit, Michael, but we're grateful for it.
So we have a former president dining with a Nazi… Now we have the VP candidate touring with Tucker who gives a platform to Nazis. Hmmmm I see a pattern going on here with the GOP.. of course more discussion about the “Jewish problem”, because you know it’s a problem that Jews exist.
Only took three comments to bring it round to Trump and republicans. Possibly a new record.
Skepticism is dead.
To bring what around?
Good article on WW2 unfortunately ruined by the braindead liberalism of the closing paragraphs.
It is the truth. Maybe use your brain.
This part is a bit misleading. France was invaded after England & France declared war on Germany.
"invading the USSR after, you know, annexing Austria, the Sudentenland, Bohemia, Lithuania, and Czechoslovakia, and then invading Poland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Norway, Yugoslavia, and Greece."
" those at the top called the shots. Of course, those who desire the return to such a society always think of themselves as being in the chosen few in control..."
Those "shots" have been, are, and would be literal as well as figurative.
Tucker stands for many good positions for our society. He also has beliefs that I do not agree with. That is the way for many individuals. Many historical stories have been created over time with bias from the people in charge. Unfortunately these historical figures and the people who knew and maybe understood them through direct contact at a deeper level that is more defining are no longer around. So we are left with stories lacking depth required to understand what really happened and why. Let's be respectful to all speakers who have a point of view. We all should have the liberty to read, assess and think and decide for ourselves based on our personal knowledge and experience. Branding and name calling are not needed. Just listen and make your own decisions.
Lies need to be called out.
iPod course you can find a lawyer to defend any absurd position. A woman in California sued insurance company alleging she was turned into a nympho by head injury from auto accident she won. On the Jewish side they forget that many non Jews were also slaughtered especially in Eastern Europe. Hitler goal was to kill all Slavs and resettle Eastern Europe with Germans.
I had a neighbor who told me years ago that he had scene a real concentration camp and not believe they did not exist. He was a respected man in the community.
Thanks Michael. Carlson is mentaly ill
https://open.substack.com/pub/aporiamagazine/p/the-long-dissent-charles-murray-and?r=b5zww&utm_medium=ios